RAUK - Archived Forum - Moving palmate newts??

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Moving palmate newts??:

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martin g
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Joined: 04 Jul 2006
No. of posts: 43


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Posted: 04 Jul 2006

 

Hi Im a new visitor here.  I have been rearing newts and frogs since i was a child, now all grown up and a homeowner I have a large wildlife pond.  My problem is I have been overun with the newts and I really need to thin out the population, i would transfer some to my mothers pond, but she had 130 odd in a meter square pond at my last count so she has a similar problem.  I cant really allow them to breed in the pond, as it contains perch who will dessimate the tadpole population hence I always remove all frog, newt and fish spawn in spring and rear them in stock tubs.  So..i need somewhere to offload a few dozen, they have mostly left the pond now until spring i believe so i cant find them all, but in spring i can net them (literally a 6 inch square net can grab up to 8 newts in a scoop sometimes)

Any advice on what to do? I have a feeling that the law may stop me moving such creatures??

thanks

 

martin


Caleb
Forum Coordinator
Joined: 17 Feb 2003
No. of posts: 448


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Posted: 04 Jul 2006
It's not against the law to move palmate newts, only to sell or trade them.

They can live in quite high densities, so unless they're looking really thin, there's probably not a problem.

You could just stop rearing them up, that might help!
martin g
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Joined: 04 Jul 2006
No. of posts: 43


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Posted: 04 Jul 2006

Ok, thanks, I didnt make clear that the success in the stock tub to young adult is probably just a few a year ( i only have about 4 or so inch long newts at the moment), so I dont think its my efforts that push them up too much. The main problem is that the newts eat the frog tadpoles in the shallows where the perch cant get at them. Anyway....i will take your advice and leave them to breed and take thier own chances, im sure a few will still make it.  I always thought they were scarce hence my help to them? 

The froglets done well this year, I think 50 or so hopped off into the garden to fend for themselves, and some seriously big dragonflies left the pond no doubt at the expense of a few missing froglets.

 

tjanks


herpetologic2
Senior Member
Joined: 15 Jun 2004
No. of posts: 1369


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Posted: 04 Jul 2006

 

Even if there was a problem it is probably best to leave them well alone - moving them to new ponds may spread disease etc - so just let them balance out - though the perch would snuffle quite a few of them I would expect -

Jon


Vice Chair of ARG UK - self employed consultant -
visit ARG UK & Alresford Wildlife
GemmaJF
Admin Group
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
No. of posts: 2090


View other posts by GemmaJF
Posted: 04 Jul 2006

Just out of interest I once found some palmate newts breeding in tractor ruts. These were at an amazingly high density, you only had to put your hand in to pull out dozens. Only saw this the once and the ruts are now long gone, though a nearby pond still holds a good population.

I agree with Jon, the real problem here is the potential of spreading disease. Great crested newts are the species with full legal protection that are of conservation concern and that you would not be able to move legally without a DEFRA license.

Ever thought of putting in a really shallow fish free pond for the frogs? We are creating one at the moment as we have a large smooth newt population and frog spawn/taddies wouldn't stand a chance in our main pond. We are aim at super shallow with a small sump, the idea being it won't be very attractive to newts at all.


Gemma Fairchild, Independent Ecological Consultant
martin g
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Joined: 04 Jul 2006
No. of posts: 43


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Posted: 07 Jul 2006

ah yes good idea thanks!

thanks for all your advice guys

 


Rich
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Joined: 22 Nov 2004
No. of posts: 7


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Posted: 17 Jul 2006

Hello Martin,

You don't say where you are located, but I could use a few palmates for my girlfriend's pond in Sutton in Ashfield. The newts that are there at the moment are smooths but smaller than usual. Maybe palmates would be more viable, as the area is high (about 500feet), being on the edge of the pennines. The water, mostly rainwater, is likely to be acid.

Not seen many newts on land but there are numerous frogs and toads. We had lots of froglets this year as a heron took the couple of largish goldfish in the spring. There are a few small goldfish, offspring of the big ones, but I am expecting the heron to visit again soon ;-).

I may even dig a second pond for them.

I suppose the newts could be transferred whilst aestivating if you can find them, or maybe next year when they return to the water.

Cheers

Michael


I have been interested in reptiles and amphibians since boyhood and I would like to improve my knowledge and captive breed some species, particularly T.helveticus.
herpetologic2
Senior Member
Joined: 15 Jun 2004
No. of posts: 1369


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Posted: 17 Jul 2006

 

If you are some distance away it would be safer not to move these newts over large distances - it is always ideal to keep the animals within their local range and not introduce them into new areas which are beyond their range - given the possible spread of disease, genetic disruption and other possible problems it would be best to leave them where they are

If you are within 1km of the site then I would say it would be fine any further than 5km then I would want to discourage it - I often advise people along these lines - sorry for being well a bit negative but I feel it is the best course of action.

It comes back to the perception that the newts need thinning out by artificial means - capture and moved away - it is best to let the natural balance alter itself - newt populations will increase and will eventually decrease naturally year on year on its own.

Regards

Jon


Vice Chair of ARG UK - self employed consultant -
visit ARG UK & Alresford Wildlife
evilmike
Senior Member
Joined: 15 May 2004
No. of posts: 85


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Posted: 17 Jul 2006

palmates are hugely successful in my pond, unfortunately they seem to polish off the tadpoles very quick to the point of i havent seen one since about 3 weeks after spawning or a froglet this year :( thats going from 20plus clumps of spawn and a very good frog population. 

the froggies are going to need a bit of help next year as these last two years have been very poor.  


Mike Lister BSc hons Ecology & Env management
herpetologic2
Senior Member
Joined: 15 Jun 2004
No. of posts: 1369


View other posts by herpetologic2
Posted: 17 Jul 2006

 

I think that to help common frog tadpoles survive newt attack is to get them to grow as fast as they can. For the last three years I have not seen any froglets come off the 40 clumps of spawn laid in my previous pond in Eastleigh. This season I pulled out all the aquatic vegetation, cut back all the reeds to allow as much light and warmth into the water. The warmer conditions enable the tadpoles to grow to a very large size. Also if you create very shallow areas within a pond this enables the tadpoles to group up and this helps them defend themselves from the hungry newts when they arrive.

I have hundreds of very large tadpoles - before I moved house - I hope that they metamorphosed into froglets - I am sure that they would have as no newt was big enough to swallow them -

Frog tadpoles are adapted to living in very shallow water bodies and hence the need for such conditions in small garden ponds - if you have a deep pond - over 1ft in depth then a solution may be to build a smaller pool with shallows which are approx 1in deep - you can top up with rainwater through the summer -

Regards

 

 

Jon


Vice Chair of ARG UK - self employed consultant -
visit ARG UK & Alresford Wildlife

- Moving palmate newts??

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