RAUK - Archived Forum - IMPORT BAN oN REPTILES

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IMPORT BAN oN REPTILES:

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AGILIS
Senior Member
Joined: 27 Feb 2007
No. of posts: 694


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Posted: 01 Jan 2009
Do members of this forum think the govenment should ban all reptile imports or is that going over the top,as there seems to be problem of none native herps starting to breed in sensitive areas within our native wildlife , due to idiots chucking them out when bored with them, and when their pet croc get to over 10foot into the local canal with it , with disregard to young kids swimming or fishing, same with their pet anacondas , how many of Londons dissapeared alcoholic vagarants  have ended up as a meal to some secretive serpent lurking in the summer lilie pads in Regents canal, that also has a known colony of aesculapian snakes so what else? loggerhead turtles... well this may seem a bit exstreme but we do have plenty of terrapins everywhere and I dont like the idea of giant bull frogs swallowing some ones pet cat. >.We do have some other lizards  as the greens and pocardis walls that seem an asset within certain areas and I like seeing them there. but I would not want to encounter a 12 or more  foot constrictor when looking for smoothies on some isolated heathland all alone yieks.years ago there were reports of crocs being seen by anglers in the river Nene near some power station warm water outlet.pic below taken last summer on the Regents canal embankment whilst looking for aesculapians KEITH
 



AGILIS39814.6197800926
   LOCAL ICYNICAL CELTIC ECO WARRIOR AND FAILED DRUID
tim hamlett
Senior Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2006
No. of posts: 572


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Posted: 01 Jan 2009

hi keith

that's an interesting idea...banning something to stop it from happening. they should try it with some of our social problems like drugs, under-age drinking and guns.

happy new year mate and watch out for those crocs in 2009, especially the ones in the regent's canal...i've heard they hang around in armed groups, off their heads on crack!

tim

 


Deano
Senior Member
Joined: 23 Aug 2005
No. of posts: 133


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Posted: 04 Mar 2009

I think we may be missing the point.

If the goverment do ban all reptile imports, it won't be because of the threat of Godzilla emerging from the river Lee, but for the well being of the animals concerned. Okay, they may not have been taken from the wild, but probably farmed in far away countries where there are no controls over how they are kept or housed. Is this fair on these living breathing creatures? And how many times do we see pictures of reptiles crammed into crates for transport into or through our country. Try and think about what they go through just to allow someone to sell them on and make a profit from their now, unnatural lives (if they make it, alive, to the shops).

Why import reptiles in the first place? As pets for wanna be Steve Irwins? If true, that's a bit sad. People should go out and see them in the wild.

 


Deano
Better to be lucky than good looking.
herpetologic2
Senior Member
Joined: 15 Jun 2004
No. of posts: 1369


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Posted: 04 Mar 2009
Here Here!

Will it happen I doubt it!

[QUOTE=Deano]

I thinkáwe may be missing the
point.


If the goverment do ban all reptile imports, it won't
be because of the threat of Godzilla emerging from the
river Lee, but for the well being of the animals
concerned. Okay, they may not have been taken from the
wild, but probably farmed in far away countries where
there are no controls over how they are kept or housed.
Is this fair on these living breathingácreatures? And
how many times do we see pictures of reptiles crammed
into crates for transport into or through our country.
Try and think about what they go through just to allow
someone to sell them on and make a profit from their
now, unnatural lives (if they make it, alive, to the
shops).


Why import reptiles in the first place? As pets for
wanna be Steve Irwins? If true, that's a bit sad.áPeople
should go out and see them in the wild.


á

[/QUOTE]
Vice Chair of ARG UK - self employed consultant -
visit ARG UK & Alresford Wildlife
Alan Hyde
Senior Member
Joined: 17 Apr 2003
No. of posts: 1416


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Posted: 04 Mar 2009
True, very true. I love field herpetology , much more than keeping in captivity but you're forgetting one important point.

We need to learn. Not everybody can go out into the wild reguarly, certain things in life prevent this, money, children ,jobs.
I study bitis at home, not because i'm a Steve Irwin wanna be, but because I wish to learn as much as I can about these wonderful creatures and pass what i've learnt on in years to come.
I do feel that those species commonly bred in captivity should not be imported. Also a close eye should be kept on wild populations of those that are imported.

O-> O+>
David Bird
Forum Specialist
Joined: 17 Feb 2003
No. of posts: 515


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Posted: 04 Mar 2009
I went to a workshop the other week regarding the Ranavirus problem with respect to E.U. amphibians and fish, especially the economic food fish, with import of so called exotic fish and amphibians from non E.U. countries. This was the end of a 3 year project from virologists at institutes across Europe. Very good work has been done on the various "strains" of the Ranaviruses and what taxa they could infect and what effect they had. Dead fish and amphibians were obtained from various importers as well as the Animal Reception Centre at Heathrow to examine if Ranavirus was present and what countries it was coming from. A few representatives from the U.K. trade and herpetofauna conservation orgaisations were invited. Any restriction on Amphibian imports was previously thought could be carried out under animal health legislation already in place but that is not probably not so as it is agricultural policy and not wildlife policy which is what it seems it would have to be. From the results and the species involved it seems that with the amphibians it is the Tropical species that are at the moment carriers. The discussion from the few people present with knowledge of keeping amphibians and alien species in the wild concluded that the risk of a captive tropical amphibian escaping in a house and getting to the wild and remaining alive long enough to pass any disease on was extremely remote.
Specific illegal releases also came up with the sole purpose of alien introductions and people keeping foreign temperate species in greenhouses from where they could escape. The problem with these and specially when one looks at the lizards is that the animals rarely come from the trade anymore and are illegally smuggled both out of the country of origin and into the U.K., by the person that wants to breed them, in their car or suitcase and kept and bred in numbers in their garden for release of the young. No amount of legislation banning import of anything will stop this from happening if the people involved are set on their foolhardy and dangerous projects. At the moment the legislation allows one to see where the animals are coming from and then to check which areas have problems and then act if neccessary.

The U.K. does have Ranavirus present in some areas and as such is a dirty country in animal welfare terms so it would be easier to import animals into the U.K. but not actually export any amphibians from here to the U.K. without individual testing and certification as is needed in coldwater fish at the moment.
There is no way we should look at alien species as an asset, as they never are in conservation terms and we have to regard all releases as criminal with the information that is now available but may not have been 20 years ago. In Victorian times the release of exotic species was a recognised pastime but in the 21st century we are far more enlightened and should not be carrying out the same mistakes that the Victorians made.
British Herpetological Society Librarian and member of B.H.S Conservation Committee. Self employed Herpetological Consultant and Field Worker.
Deano
Senior Member
Joined: 23 Aug 2005
No. of posts: 133


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Posted: 05 Mar 2009
Alan,
I understand the bit about family getting in the way and I'm no Saint and have kept a number of different animals over the years. But now I don't like watching any creature, either sitting listlessly in its enclosure or moving around it trying to find a way out. How do you know if an animal is content with being kept in captivity, do you ask it? Which also brings me to the point about studying them in captivity. How will what you learn apply to wild animals whose behaviour isn't affected by confiment in unnatural surroundings? Should we compare the results with studies made with wild populations.
I think you can see where I'm going with this...

Deano
Better to be lucky than good looking.
Alan Hyde
Senior Member
Joined: 17 Apr 2003
No. of posts: 1416


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Posted: 06 Mar 2009
Hi Dean,

Completely see where you're coming from , I myself was in the same frame of mind throughout most of the 90's. I had kept many species of snakes for many years, then I gave up for a period of about a decade as I believed that all animals should be wild. (still do ideally)

There are of course many negative points to keeping in captivity , I still prefer to see an animal in its natural habitat if possible.
On the plus side.. I keep nasicornis to learn about reproduction , behaviour and although my knowledge of taxonamy is low I am interested in that too.
By reproducing in captivity the import of WC animals is gradually becoming less and less, leaving the wild animals to maintain populations. Also, not in my area of knowledge but, The properties of venom are proving to be beneficial to man for drugs , how can herpetologists find this out without keeping in captivity? By constantly pestering the wild animals?.

By trying to recreate an animals wild conditions as near as is possible I can study behavior that basicly nobody else is seeing. There are not many herpetologists sitting out in the deep congo watching nasicornis for any length of time .
When you watch David Attenborough on TV where do you think most of the info he says is coming from? I can tell you that a small percentage will have come from those that have the time and funds to study in the wild, but the majority of what he tells the viewer comes from people that spend years studying captive specimins, sometimes comparing with wild animals.
If a Certain animal becomes endangered due to some environmental problem we also then have a good idea of why it may of happened and are already breeding in captivity ready for reintroduction.

Without captive keeping alot of what we know would still be theory and unknown.

If we really want something to be concerned about we should be dealing with this DISTURBING STUFF instead of just sweeping it under the carpet. Faaaar more destructive than keeping herps in captivity. Who will replace all these species once they are wiped out from the wild ?

The way things are in the world today we need people that keep bloodlines pure keeping in captivity. After all, many of our native sand lizard populations that we talk about here are from re-introduced captive bred specimins




Alan Hyde39878.5788541667
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Deano
Senior Member
Joined: 23 Aug 2005
No. of posts: 133


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Posted: 26 Mar 2009

Hi Alan

Yeah, disturbing stuff. But, what's the answer?

If these guys wiped out their local reptiles, would we then try to reintroduce them only for these people to collect and slaughter them.

There was that campaign to stop people wearing real fur and it worked for a while. But, even the cute fluffy animals couldn't get away from the fashionistas. With the banning of fur farms over here the farming just moved abroad where the RSPCA couldn't monitor the conditions the animals were kept in.

Whatever we wish, nothing will happen unless we do something. Perhaps we should be letter writing and making phone calls, instead of studying our 'pets'.

Maybe ALL our effort should be put into saving our local habitats and herps.

Questions, questions, questions. But I have no answers.

Does anybody?

Oops! Another Question.


Deano
Better to be lucky than good looking.
Alan Hyde
Senior Member
Joined: 17 Apr 2003
No. of posts: 1416


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Posted: 26 Mar 2009
Hi Deano,


I do agree that we need to save our wild animals and habitats , but then there's always going to be plenty of animals vanishing due to environmental issues and the more known about those species through captive study the better.
I will add that there is a difference between herpetologists studying captive specimins and hobbyists that keep for pure pleasure / love of breeding mongrels and morphs for ú's.

The important thing is that those concerned with these issues stick together and work together , whether we be field worker , taxonamist, toxicologist, behaviourist ect.
All tie in together and make a much more productive result.

As you say, the questions are endless

All the best,
Al
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Deano
Senior Member
Joined: 23 Aug 2005
No. of posts: 133


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Posted: 28 Mar 2009
Yes Alan

Working together. I agree.

I always wonder though, why there are so many different 'Wildlife' organisations which all seem to have the same aims, but working separately.

But yes, let's all do our bit as best we can.

Deano
Better to be lucky than good looking.
Deano
Senior Member
Joined: 23 Aug 2005
No. of posts: 133


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Posted: 01 Apr 2009

Don't suppose this could happen here. Or could it?!!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7967587.stm


Deano
Better to be lucky than good looking.
Alan Hyde
Senior Member
Joined: 17 Apr 2003
No. of posts: 1416


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Posted: 01 Apr 2009
It has happened to some degree hasn't it, green lizards and terrapins. At the moment there is no way anything like a python would survive our wintersAlan Hyde39904.5061689815
O-> O+>
Snake Inc.
Member
Joined: 29 Dec 2006
No. of posts: 41


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Posted: 14 Dec 2009
If an alien exotic species has the potential to cause
environmental damage due to becoming invasive we should
consider a workable management process.
"For in the end we will conserve only what we love
We will love only what we understand
And we will understand only what we have been taught"

http://www.reptilepets.co.za/
-LAF
Senior Member
Joined: 03 Apr 2003
No. of posts: 317


View other posts by -LAF
Posted: 05 Jan 2010
If I came across a 12ft+ constrictor while out looking
for smoothies part of me would be pretty ecstatic. Don't
get me wrong, I'd feel bad for the snake and angry at
whoever set it free, but excited nonetheless. It would
make for a much more interesting day.

I do think that import bans on widely bred species would
be a very good idea though, both in terms of
environmental risk and animal welfare. Import of species
without a sound captive breeding base could then be
handled more strictly.

Just my 0.2c as always,

Lee.
Lee Fairclough
AGILIS
Senior Member
Joined: 27 Feb 2007
No. of posts: 694


View other posts by AGILIS
Posted: 05 Jan 2010
HI LEE OK AS LONG AS YOU WERE NOT ITS PREY
   LOCAL ICYNICAL CELTIC ECO WARRIOR AND FAILED DRUID
-LAF
Senior Member
Joined: 03 Apr 2003
No. of posts: 317


View other posts by -LAF
Posted: 06 Jan 2010
Nah, Christmas indulgences should mean I'm safe for now!
-LAF40184.8476851852
Lee Fairclough

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