RAUK - Archived Forum - walthamstow marsh green frogs

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walthamstow marsh green frogs:

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will
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Joined: 27 Feb 2007
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Posted: 23 Jun 2010
Happened to be going past Walthamstow marshes in east London today, which has had green frogs since at least the early 90's - or HAD them, anyway; where I used to see them scattered along the ditches, today there was absolutely nothing.  Good news perhaps for the local dragonflies, bad for herons and grass snakes.  I'm wondering if the shallow ditches in which they hibernate froze for too long in the winter, or if there's another reason.  Also, maybe these green frogs were edible rather than marsh frogs (I've only got one image from a slide taken in 1995 - what do you think?) and perhaps they're less resistant to cold winters than marsh frogs...  Finally, have you all noticed fewer green frogs this spring / summer in your patches, or are they as abundant as ever ? (at Barn Elms in west London the marsh frogs still seem very common)
Cheers
Will



ben rigsby
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Joined: 27 Apr 2010
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Posted: 26 Jun 2010
thanks for nice fresh post and the portrait will.

never seen greens myself but a friend who took over a trout farm with abundant fish stocked/unstocked pools in a valley near me here in glos claimed to have seen and heard non-temporaria there. his "wildlife acumen" is generally pretty well informed so i investigated on one occasion last year but definately saw only temporaria myself.
i thought he was mistaken.

maybe ill arrange another visit as i got him to listen to marsh frog call recordings and he says they were similar to what hed heard. he reckons he saw air sacs too. so maybe worth another check out.

happy herping to you!

ben


Diversity.
will
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Joined: 27 Feb 2007
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Posted: 27 Jun 2010
Thanks Ben; I'm going to do some more surveying in the Lea Valley area as I can't believe all the green frogs are gone after one cold winter, but it certainly seems to have put paid to those which chose to hibernate in shallow ditches in the Walthamstow Marshes LNR.  Maybe there will be a recolonisation from other areas in the next few years.
will
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Joined: 27 Feb 2007
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Posted: 02 Jul 2010
I found a few at the nearby Waterworks Reserve on the Lee Valley today, mainly in deeper pools, so maybe the cold winter has caused a contraction in their range.  I reckon these ones are edible frogs, rather than marsh frogs.  Note the damselflies which chose a silly place to lay an egg - but remarkably they survived and flew away before they were snapped up!



ben rigsby
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Joined: 27 Apr 2010
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Posted: 03 Jul 2010
thats a fab pic will. its got a cartoon feel to it with the the hunted almost taunting the hunter by resting on its nose.

cheers ben
Diversity.
will
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Joined: 27 Feb 2007
No. of posts: 330


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Posted: 04 Jul 2010
Thanks Ben; definitely living dangerously, those damselflies!
herpetologic2
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Joined: 15 Jun 2004
No. of posts: 1369


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Posted: 05 Jul 2010
Hi Will

The recent photo look like a classic marsh type water
frog (as Julia Wycherley used to say). Though the old
slide photo look much more interesting.

There was a slow start to the Marsh frogs in Hadleigh
this year reported by the countryside ranger.

It would be great to get some survey data this year for
the water frogs around London and Essex.

I am planning to write a book over the next two years for
the Essex Naturalist Series - the Herpetofauna of Essex
and I would like to record the massive expansion of the
water frogs over the last decade

Have you been over to the pool frogs on Bell Common at
all this year?


Vice Chair of ARG UK - self employed consultant -
visit ARG UK & Alresford Wildlife
will
Senior Member
Joined: 27 Feb 2007
No. of posts: 330


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Posted: 05 Jul 2010

Hi Jon

Could well be a mixed population, I guess.  I've heard rumours of pool frog at Bell Common and funnily enough I was planning a visit soon; happy to meet up if you'd like.  Also Fairmead ponds used to have pool / edible frogs but not sure if they're still there.  Once found a painted frog not far from Fairmead, too.

Cheers

Will


herpetologic2
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Joined: 15 Jun 2004
No. of posts: 1369


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Posted: 06 Jul 2010
Hi Will

Yeah a meet up would be great - I am working in Hadleigh
this Thursday - so i can pop over to Bell Common this
Wednesday perhaps

J
Vice Chair of ARG UK - self employed consultant -
visit ARG UK & Alresford Wildlife
will
Senior Member
Joined: 27 Feb 2007
No. of posts: 330


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Posted: 06 Jul 2010
Hi Jon

Great - I can be up at Bell Common (I presume it's the southernmost pond on the common?) at 2pm tomorrow - Weds.  Drop me a pm with your mob number and I'll give you mine for the day

Cheers

Will

herpetologic2
Senior Member
Joined: 15 Jun 2004
No. of posts: 1369


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Posted: 06 Jul 2010
I will do but I am not sure I would be able to make 2pm

J
Vice Chair of ARG UK - self employed consultant -
visit ARG UK & Alresford Wildlife

- walthamstow marsh green frogs

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