RAUK - Archived Forum - European pond tortoise Emys orbicularis

Hi I have recently been given an adult male European Pond Turtle that was found in the Norfolk Broad area and have been told of 4 others that have been found in the general area.

DEFRA tell me that none exist in the Broads network but 5 inderviduals seem unusual.

I have been collecting all surplus specimens from UK zoo's and hope to breed from them, but want to know if a wild or feral population exists?

Any ideas?

Thanks David, All of those found in and around the Norfolk Broads have come via the RSPCA and they have not been able to give me any indication on the exact spot that they were found.

I am keeping the Norfolk specimens seperate from the others that I have, the Herp TAG work was by Joe Blossom, but sadly the zoo's concerned had no idea as to the origin of the stock.

Joe Blossom also has some that he keeps outside all year, I will show him my stock and with any luck we will be able to decide on a plan of action.

Ben.

David Bird's post about keeping the Norfolk specimens (Emys orbicularis) separate is an important issue.

Remains of the European pond tortoise have been found in East Anglia (and I believe particularly in Norfolk) dating back to as late as ca. 5000 years ago. Some authors, e.g. Marr, J. E., Shipley, A.E. (1904) describe the species as being once common in the fens. There is, therefore, no doubt that it is a native species, the question being, are the specimens presently being found the result of an introduction or the remains of a relict population which is, with climatic warming, possibly now able to breed with greater frequency? (In Poland they do not successfully breed most years but still maintain viable populations aided by their longevity). They presumably persisted for sometime after the date of the fossil finds; even as late as the time of the Roman invasion Britain still had a milder climate than at present.

There is also no doubt that introductions to East Anglia have occurred; for example some were released in Blaxhall and Little Glemham in Suffolk between 1894 - 95.

There have been sporadic sightings in Norfolk for some time.  Earlier on this site, I mentioned the finding of a large female in north Norfolk (Mike Linley- Anglia TV scientific contributor) and other posts do seem to be suggesting that these finds are not uncommon.  The earliest reference I can find is one accidentally excavated alive in fen peat at Ludham, Norfolk in 1904 where it had apparently dug itself in for hibernation.  During the milder climates experienced 5000 years ago, populations also existed in countries bordering the Baltic Sea, such as Denmark and Sweden.  The Danish and Swedish populations have also gone extinct in the interim whereas other populations around the Baltic still persist in north eastern Germany, Poland, Latvia and Lithuania. If the European pond tortoise story mirrors that of the pool frog Rana lessonae in Norfolk, post-glacial colonisation by Emys could have occurred in a west to east direction from the Baltic area. (See the Snell, Tetteh and Evans paper mentioned on the pool frog reintroduction pages on this website û I could email a copy if contacted by ôpmö button (private mail)).  The pool frog story was also complicated by introductions of the species or related species.  There is no doubt that some or all of the recent pond tortoise finds could be as result of introduction and genetic testing would be interesting to come to some kind of conclusion.  It would be my guess that if any of the Norfolk Emys have a chance of being native they ought to be more closely related to those in north-eastern Germany and Poland than to those in France or more southern European countries, as was the case with the pool frog.  (As late as about 9000 years ago there was a land bridge across the North Sea between Scandinavia, the Low Countries and East Anglia).

It has always been assumed in Denmark that the pond tortoise died out between the iron and Bronze ages, but as David Bird points out in his last post, some were found in the 1990s of unknown origin.  I have found two Danish web sites on Emys (in Danish) both seem to suggest that there are still some Emys in central Jutland.  One of the sites also indicated that there are a few on the island of Bornholm and that those on Jutland had been genetically tested (8 were caught and seven were tested) the results showing that the animals were not of the type found further south in Europe.  This, of course, increases the likelihood (but not proving the case) of there being being a relict population.

Just an update really I have seen European Pond terrapins in Essex - unfortuantely they were for sale in a local exotic pet store - along with french marsh frogs!

JC

Dear All, I have been told that European Pond Tortoise have been breeding for many years in the southern Norfolk Broads and have had reports of several populations in Strumpshaw, Surlingham and Ranworth.

I am told that very young Emys were seen throughout the 1980's, I am going to speak to the Norfolk Records Office and see what else I can find.