RAUK - Archived Forum - Pool frogs to be reintroduced today

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Pool frogs to be reintroduced today:

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Caleb
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Posted: 12 Aug 2005
'Frog with Norfolk accent returns'
soadfan1
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Posted: 12 Aug 2005

Does this technically make this frog now classed as Native since it was Native? or is it still classed as alien?  My thoughts would be native!

 

-Rob


herpetologic2
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Posted: 13 Aug 2005

 

The reason it is being introduced is that they are pretty sure that it probably is native - the closest we have to the native norfolk frogs are the ones from Sweden or the northern clade frogs

lets hope they establish themselves

JC


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GemmaJF
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Posted: 13 Aug 2005

It depends on which definition of 'native' you use.

If you regard native as present before Britain was cut off by rising sea levels about 9,000 years ago and still present, then those frogs recently released can't be native individuals.

Though I think it is generally accepted that if a species becomes extinct and we reintroduce it, the status as a native species is valid.

Can we reintroduce bears and wolves next, I think they are cute

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rhysrkid
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Posted: 14 Aug 2005
Gemma

I know there are definitely plans to reintroduce the European Beaver, and Countryfile reported a couple of weekends ago that a rather wealthy land owner was in fact planning to have his own 'native park' with bears and wolves amongst others roaming his Scottish estate in the highlands.  Not sure how the local farmers would feel about that, although he is planning on containing them within a large electric fence!

Rhys
GemmaJF
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Posted: 14 Aug 2005
Cool, do think there is any mileage in recreating dinosaurs from preserved DNA strands found in the saliva of insects locked in Jurassic resin, they were native once.....
Gemma Fairchild, Independent Ecological Consultant
Alan Hyde
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Posted: 14 Aug 2005
[QUOTE=GemmaJF]

Can we reintroduce bears and wolves next, I think they are cute

[/QUOTE]

Hmmm , I was watching Countryfile a couple of weeks ago and apparently there is a guy ready to reintroduce wolves up in Scotland if he gets the go ahead
O-> O+>
Iowarth
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Posted: 14 Aug 2005

Interestingly, under the terms of the Bern Convention which the UK is signatory to:-

"Consider the possibility of carrying out captive breeding and reintroduction programmes in areas where the species has been extinct or is endangered..."

And, under item H:

"...where the wolf has disappeared to support actively the conservation of this species, particularly by promoting public awareness, encouraging research in its present distribution area, studying reintroduction possibilities, and collaborating with the states where wolves survive."

Bearing in mind that the Wolf was common in the UK until only about 300 years ago ... well, we can live in hopes! I'd even let them eat the odd lizard or two in the wild! (ideally, the odd politician or two!)


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soadfan1
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Posted: 22 Aug 2005
Wouldnt  re-introducing wolves and bears bring more chance of bringing Rabies back into the u.k? soadfan138586.1724768519
Tony Phelps
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Posted: 22 Aug 2005
Wasn't the Isle of Rhum to be the pilot scheme for wolves.

I would put them in Wareham forest and Purbeck, firstly to keep the Sika down, and to eat a few arsonists; although I do know that these wonderful canines do not attack people.
Lynx would be nice - but not beaver - imagine what they would do to the Stour and similar rivers.

T
herpetologic2
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Posted: 23 Aug 2005

 

back to the original question the Pool frogs that are reintroduced would be considered as 'native' - or at least they will recieve probably the same protection as other fully protected native amphibians

JC


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Jeroen
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Posted: 24 Aug 2005

In case you want to read more ...

Snell, C.; Tetteh, J.; Evans, I.H. (2005); Phylogeography of the pool frog (Rana lessonae Camerano) in Europe: evidence for native status in Great Britain and for an unusual postglacial colonization route. Biological Journal of the Linnean Society 85: 4151.

I have this paper.

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Jeroen
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Posted: 24 Aug 2005
"one of Europe's rarest species" ???
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GemmaJF
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Posted: 24 Aug 2005

English Nature have just released a new Research Report, # 642.

Pool frog Reintroduction Strategy

Copies can obtained from English Nature on 01733 455101

(If anyone can find a link to the pdf doc. please do post it up, I have a copy but not sure about the copyright issues of mounting the file on RAUK and making it avialable)


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herpetologic2
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Posted: 24 Aug 2005

 

http://www.english-nature.org.uk/pubs/publication/PDF/642.pd f

there you go


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Mick
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Posted: 27 Aug 2005

Personally i wouldn't consider the Pool frog exactly native if the main evidence did stem from as far back as when we were still land tied to continental europe. I mean, if that were the case then aren't we still talkin' Norfolk where fossil evidence was found?, a county which almost possibly even nearly 'missed the boat', so to speak! Oh well, a bit of waffle there, i know, & i'm still nevertheless glad with what they're attempting here with the species. Not sure it'll work though considering how just recently (last known specimen in 1990's, wasn't it?) it naturally struggled & lost out with existing here in Norfolk.

On Beavers?, well, with their more definate native existance here i'm sure they'll have considered everything & tried to do their homework properly first. I reckon we'd somehow cope with those again okay, as i reckon we would wolves too, in places suitable. I believe Wild Boars are known to still be on the loose, roaming in at least a few places, & i think i'd rather come across a few wolves (hardly even likely with they're amazing sense of smell of us) than bump into a mother Boar & her piglets! I'd be personally quite happy about bears as well, though not sure i'd feel quite keen on bumping into one, again especially a mother & cubs. On the whole i'd be well chuffed to see all these relatively recent natives back where they rightfully belong, although nowadays some islands would probably suit them best, thanks to us.    


Caleb
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Posted: 27 Aug 2005
Mick- did you read the EN report? It has an excellent summary of all the evidence, have a read and see what you think after that.

The reintroduction site(s) will be managed with pool frogs in mind, unlike the sites they died out from. This should make a massive difference, so hopefully they will persist this time.
rhysrkid
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Posted: 28 Aug 2005

In the current British Wildlife there is a summary of the European Beaver reintroduction progress.  It also lists the IUCN guidelines for reintroductions:

* the species must have been a former inhabitant of the country or region

* the causes of its extinction are known and no longer exist

* there is suitable habitat available

* the reintroduction should be monitored so that its success cans be assessed and protocols refined in the light of new information

I think the pool frog shceme satisifies all of these.


Rhys
janne
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Posted: 15 Jan 2006
Hi there!

Does anybody know how the introduced pool frogs reacted in
their new environment? Dealing with introduction of other
species in Sweden, it seems that many animals (juveniles and
adults) tend to emigrate from the introduction pond and are not
seen again. But some stay behind and begin mating.

Best regards

Janne
herpetologic2
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Posted: 16 Jan 2006

 

John Buckley (HCT) gave a talk on the project at the East Anglia Regional Meeting in November last year. The frogs were enclosed by an amphibian fence around the introduction pond - plenty of terrestrial habitat was provided for the frogs. The tadpoles which were released were found to have successfully metamorphosed later in the year.

Numbers of frogs seen during the year gradually depleted to no sightings which indicated that the animals went into hibernation away from the pond - it now all depends on what is seen this spring

JC


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- Pool frogs to be reintroduced today

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